De blog met dat 15/20 apparaten een groot KNX netwerk is komt pas als er klachten binnenkomen, tot die tijd is het geweldig

Best een rare move, aan de ene kant gaan ze meer naar de Henk en Annie's en aan de andere kant gaan ze KNX wat echt voor de Tweaker is toevoegen.
Ik had vandaag nog een discussie met Emile waar uiteindelijk weinig tot geen antwoord op kwam m.b.t. het geven van een key voor Flomey n.a.v. een antwoord op een vraag van een andere gebruiker, een vraag die eerst ook verkeerd beantwoord werd. Emile gaat hier ook in op of HASS een concurrent is of niet.
roel_hendr [11:29 AM]
@Bram Can you answer me here? Thx!
roel_hendr
Thx for your feedback. I get the feeling a lot of users think this way.
Also I see HASS evolve much much faster, supports same stuff honey does and even more, has regular releases with a lot of new interesting features. And indeed its more stable.
Maybe athom members (I know they are here, but don't know their names.. sorry :blush:) can answer my question also? Would be interesting to hear how they are going to compete with HASS and keep users aboard
You didn't loose me yet, don't wanna... but give me enough to stay...
Posted in #homeyYesterday at 11:54 PM
weejewel [11:55 AM]
We have no plans to support hass directly. It's definitely better off as a community project.
roel_hendr [12:08 PM]
That's not an answer to my question :slightly_smiling_face:. I don't want Homey to support HASS. I want it to be a better choice than HASS. Most of the downsides of Homey are working in HASS, which make me think about moving to HASS and sell my Homey. I don't want that....yet. Tell me why I should stay, tell me what you are planning to do to keep users like me aboard....Do you see HASS as a competitor or will Homey have other purposes in future?
weejewel [12:23 PM]
HASS is not a competitor. We are always working on improving the stability of Homey, so if that's why you want to leave I'd suggest you wait. However if you get very happy by creating your own .yaml files and have unlimited freedom, Homey isn't for you.
Our goal is to make home automation accessibly to everyone. If we'd only develop for the home automation geeks that currently use open source projects such as hass or domoticz, we're not solving a problem, just making it somewhat easier for them. We really strive to get the majority involved in home automation. And for that to happen, it should be easier and more fun to use. In my opinion not necessarily more limited, but some will always experience it like that.
lubbertkramer [12:36 PM]
Well its limited when you don't want to give out a key for powerusers to make their own web floweditor or build it as a plugin into a existing app(homeda.sh) that already HASS a key (which you will pull back you said if that will be done) before Athom removes the WebUI that sounds limiting to me... can't find a reason why the key that is already in use can't be used, doesn't bring any more security risks because those are there already
weejewel [12:40 PM]
We have development keys which can be used by anyone in a standalone application, and we are not giving out public keys just yet for the sake of protection of our users.
lubbertkramer [12:40 PM]
No answer to the question, because Homeyda.sh is already a public app
Can be used by every Homey owner, so building it as a plugin there won't give any more risks than the key has already at the moment
weejewel [12:43 PM]
I really don't see how HomeyDash has _anything_ to do with this.
lubbertkramer [12:43 PM]
just read, you said you will pull the public key when Flomey will be build as part of Homeyda.sh
Homeyda.sh can be used by every Homey owner, where Homeyda.sh makes use of the key that you won't want to give for Flomey as standalone app
by using the homeyda.sh key and build flomey as part of Homeda.sh there is no more risk then Homeyda.sh has allready
the key used their gives already full control of your Homey
weejewel [12:45 PM]
True. Because we trusted swttt with specifically this (mostly read-only) application.
lubbertkramer [12:46 PM]
the key already has access to my full Homey and all the API parts, so don't get why Flomey can't be build into Homeyda.sh because the key is already out in the open with the security risk you mention
weejewel [12:47 PM]
The key is restricted to swttt's domain, so it's not 'out there in the open'.
Anyway, we were talking about hass.
lubbertkramer [12:48 PM]
no i reacted on the "only feels limited" you stated but don't allowing Flomey to be a plugin onder Homeyda.sh so under @swttt his domain still gives the same security risks
weejewel [12:49 PM]
Well, if that's a limitation you cannot live with, you're free to leave :slightly_smiling_face:
lubbertkramer [12:50 PM]
It's not an answer again...you are avoiding the answer on why the key can't be used while it's under the same domain and app that already has a key with full access to Homey and why you will pull it when it's build into Homeyda.sh
so every plugin like the alarmpanel that he is making needs first to be judged by Athom otherwise the key will b revoked?
Access to the API is access to the API
and if @swttt can be trusted with it, you know what he has build in the past what also has been adopted by athom to place in the core you know it's in good hands :slightly_smiling_face:
swttt [12:51 PM]
Discussion is kinda useless at the moment. There hasn't been any activity on Flowmey after we heard we had to wait on scoped permissions
caseda [12:51 PM]
The difference is read only (homeydash only) vs read and write (with flowmey added)
lubbertkramer [12:51 PM]
the key already gives the access for both
caseda [12:52 PM]
Maybe they agreed on not using both
lubbertkramer [12:52 PM]
still the security risk that are mentioned s tay in place
when homeda.sh gets hacked eeverything can be done
caseda [12:52 PM]
As in "you can use the key only if you use it for this"
lubbertkramer [12:52 PM]
the hacker will have full control of your Homey(s) then
caseda [12:53 PM]
The reason why there aren't more keys given
lubbertkramer [12:53 PM]
yes and thats why the question as @swttt stated progress has halted because that will not be before end of 2018
lots of users would love Flomey
swttt [12:53 PM]
@lubbertkramer Where i do kinda agree with you on this... even after the last community meet-up the public discussion about dropping the UI and creating one with the web-api etc. BUT fact is flowmey will wait
we haven't developed anything since weeks
so a useless discussion imho
lubbertkramer [12:54 PM]
Indeed, there was stated that everyone could make their own web ui very simple, even by using hte old ui a web developer could make it in hours was stated
caseda [12:55 PM]
When the key handout goes public, yes
lubbertkramer [12:55 PM]
yes so Athom should have that ready before they remove something like the web ui
swttt [12:55 PM]
And my 2 cents on the HASS vs Homey discussion... Hass has more options but that comes with no friendly UI etc. Where Homey is more limited and hopefully some day is going to get an awesome UI
They stated in the last blog that the 2.0 update won't be rolled out automatically
so people have a choice
lubbertkramer [12:56 PM]
only for a limited time....
caseda [12:56 PM]
Web ui wil only be removed when the mobile app is as good or better, stop jabbering about the gui already being deleted, it Wont be deleted probably before 2019 even has started (edited)
swttt [12:56 PM]
By the way, good to see you again Elmo :joy:
lubbertkramer [12:56 PM]
No Elmo, it was Wizard :slightly_smiling_face:
lubbertkramer [12:57 PM]
replied to a thread:
good or better but still there are enough users that prefer a webui next to it
weejewel [12:57 PM]
Don't forget: In the meantime you can still create a webserver with the development keys we provided. Users can spawn it like this:
```npm i -g flowmey
./flowmey
open http://localhost:8080```
lubbertkramer [12:57 PM]
you know a lot of users already have problems installing apps by CLI :stuck_out_tongue:
weejewel [12:57 PM]
And those are exactly the kind of users we need to protect.
lubbertkramer [12:58 PM]
but for powerusers a workaround indeed, but enough henk and annies stated they also want the webui
weejewel [12:58 PM]
Trust me, most users can't wait for the mobile app and are happy to ditch the webui :stuck_out_tongue:
Slack and the forum is not a perfect sample of our userbase
lubbertkramer [12:58 PM]
Still would love to see the results of that enquete :slightly_smiling_face:
weejewel [12:59 PM]
I can imagine
lubbertkramer [12:59 PM]
never saw the question to be answered haha
robertklep [12:59 PM]
must have been presented to everyone but the power users?
weejewel [12:59 PM]
Maybe under nda :kissing_cat:
lubbertkramer [12:59 PM]
thats a handfull and not most users :wink:
swttt [1:00 PM]
But it indeed kinda feels that Homey is aiming at the henk and annies
lubbertkramer [1:00 PM]
and i can already point some NDA users here debating it or have worked on flomey
sailingduck [1:00 PM]
Slack isn't a full representation of homey users
caseda [1:00 PM]
That was known from the start, Emile's mother must be able to use homey (edited)
sailingduck [1:01 PM]
not every user wants to hang around in a slack channel
guess most are powerusers
swttt [1:01 PM]
@caseda but there is a difference in being able to operate or focus on
sailingduck [1:01 PM]
or at least above henk and annie level
swttt [1:02 PM]
I just sometime think they don't want/need power-users at all :slightly_smiling_face:
lubbertkramer [1:02 PM]
But that's why im curious about the survey results where they had most users say ditch the webui and give me mobile only, i'm around from far before the 2.0 announcement but never saw that kind of survey
sailingduck [1:05 PM]
Well the power-users/devs are needed since Athom leans on adding new features to sell more Homeys (edited)
Imagine @swttt leaving, pulling homeydash/homeykit/devicegroups
weejewel [1:06 PM]
We are definitely happy with all users, especially developers. The hard thing for us is to keep balance between both groups.
lubbertkramer [1:07 PM]
well for Homekit there is a doubleganger allowed so no worries there :stuck_out_tongue:
sailingduck [1:09 PM]
It's a bit "kip en ei" story since you pointed to us, make your own flowui, but we can't do it because wat it needs to be able to publish it has to be developed after 2.0 is released.
So there's going to be a gap for the build your own flow ui solution
weejewel [1:10 PM]
Well, the alternative is to delay v2.0 even longer
And the v2.0 update won't be pushed automatically (see the latest behind the magic) so there's not really a gap
lubbertkramer [1:11 PM]
or just let it build onder Homeyda.sh :wink:
problem solved, no delay for 2.0 and a secure enviroment which is already allowed by Athom by developer who has the status trusted
sailingduck [1:12 PM]
Well see if there's a gap
I think there will be one
We tried, asked, answer is no. Now we wait :wink: