Best internet provider

[StefanoNL]

Hi All,

sorry for writing in English.

I would like to stream via Twitch but my internet provider and my internet contract don't really allow me to do it. I have KPN and I have around 16 mbps in download and 1.8 mbps in upload. This when I use the cable, otherwise if I used the wi-fi my internet performance sadly drops.

Unluckily in my area in Utrecht there is no glass fiber so I am considering different options:

1) upgrading KPN to 50dl/5upl. This would be around 42 euros per month
2) moving to Ziggo. 90 in download and 9 in upload. 50 euros per month

The second option seems more convenient but I am not sure if they are referring to glass fiber or not. Can the "old" cable internet connection reach 90mib/s in download???
Then there is even a 180/18 but I think this one applies only to the glass fiber. The brochure is not that clear. What do you think?

The only doubt for the second option is that I need to change provider that it's per-se annoying (maybe some days without internet etc.) plus I don't have any experience with ziggo so I don't know if it's good or not. At the end with KPN I didn't have any problems so far expect for the fact that it's not that performing if you want to upload big files online/streaming videos.

Do you have any experience with KPN or Ziggo? In my position what would you do?
Thanks for helping!

[johnkeates]

Option 1: no downtime since it's in in-place upgrade.
Option 2: no downtime since it's a different cable (coaxial). As long als you keep 1 month overlap between cancelling with KPN and having Ziggo installed.

Take Ziggo if you want fast internet right now, with upgrades in the future (but limited to about 200Mbit).
Take KPN if you want reasonably fast internet right now, with upgrades in the future and probable VDSL vectoring connections and pretty much guaranteed infrastructure updates in the future to fiber.

[nooberke]

johnkeates schreef op zaterdag 25 oktober 2014 @ 17:28:
Option 1: no downtime since it's in in-place upgrade.
Option 2: no downtime since it's a different cable (coaxial). As long als you keep 1 month overlap between cancelling with KPN and having Ziggo installed.

Take Ziggo if you want fast internet right now, with upgrades in the future (but limited to about 200Mbit).
Take KPN if you want reasonably fast internet right now, with upgrades in the future and probable VDSL vectoring connections and pretty much guaranteed infrastructure updates in the future to fiber.

Big chance that when he upgrades at KPN his connection speed is still the same...since 1.8Mbit upload is already on VDSL

If you buy 90Mbit from Ziggo you will definitely get your 90Mbit...KPN is slower if you get further from the KPN station in your area

[mystie]

The download can be reached in most cases with a Ziggo connection. It also depends on your internal network.

[StefanoNL]

nooberke schreef op zaterdag 25 oktober 2014 @ 17:30:
[...]


Big chance that when he upgrades at KPN his connection speed is still the same...since 1.8Mbit upload is already on VDSL

If you buy 90Mbit from Ziggo you will definitely get your 90Mbit...KPN is slower if you get further from the KPN station in your area

you mean I won't get the 5mbit in upload? that's the main thing I want as when I upload videos on youtube is a nightmare basically I cannot use internet when I do it. Then it's also impossible using Twitch...

How is it possible that I would pay 10 euros more per month without having the performance increase I am paying for???

[nooberke]

StefanoNL schreef op zaterdag 25 oktober 2014 @ 17:33:
[...]


you mean I won't get the 5mbit in upload? that's the main thing I want as when I upload videos on youtube is a nightmare basically I cannot use internet when I do it. Then it's also impossible using Twitch...

How is it possible that I would pay 10 euros more per month without having the performance increase I am paying for???

Your current contract isn't 16/1,8 but higher I assume...maybe it is "max" 30/3?...but you will only reach it when you are really close to the neighborhood distributor

[devil-strike]

For faster internet you must go to ziggo they can provide max 180down and 18mbit/s up, you are not depending on long lines like on adsl/vdsl networks how longer the line how slower it gets, this is with coax not the problem 180mbit is 180mbit even if you are miles away.

[StefanoNL]

johnkeates schreef op zaterdag 25 oktober 2014 @ 17:28:
Option 1: no downtime since it's in in-place upgrade.
Option 2: no downtime since it's a different cable (coaxial). As long als you keep 1 month overlap between cancelling with KPN and having Ziggo installed.

Take Ziggo if you want fast internet right now, with upgrades in the future (but limited to about 200Mbit).
Take KPN if you want reasonably fast internet right now, with upgrades in the future and probable VDSL vectoring connections and pretty much guaranteed infrastructure updates in the future to fiber.

thinking on moving to ziggo now...
is it true that I won't have any downtime as they are two different cable. that's key as I don't want to be isolated

thank you all for the tips, much appreciated!!!

[mystie]

Every provider has downtime for maintenance. Ziggo has relative low downtimes due maintenance.

[StefanoNL]

mystie schreef op zaterdag 25 oktober 2014 @ 18:43:
Every provider has downtime for maintenance. Ziggo has relative low downtimes due maintenance.

but being on two different lines, can I keep KPN for 1 or two months while I am sure ziggo is up and running?

[ Voor 49% gewijzigd door StefanoNL op 25-10-2014 18:45 ]

[Sissors]

Yep, thats the normal way you migrate from one type of internet to another type, then you are sure you don't have downtime.

Also 180/18 should also be via regular coaxial cable.

[IS128AE]

2 different providers, 2 seperated lines. Ziggo is on a coax line and KPN is on the 'normal' copper telephone line.
You can have both at the same time.
From my own experience, I went from KPN telephone to Ziggo All Inclusive and the day I installed the Ziggo Cisco router, I lost the KPN telephone line.
And ... more than happy with this on the 180/18 line :-)

[Umbrah]

StefanoNL schreef op zaterdag 25 oktober 2014 @ 17:23:


1) upgrading KPN to 50dl/5upl. This would be around 42 euros per month
2) moving to Ziggo. 90 in download and 9 in upload. 50 euros per month

Thanks for helping!

Ziggo's connection speed is pretty much always the full connection speed. It's using a localised DOCISYS3 ring (the old TV cable, so to speak) to connect to a modem in your house, the rest of it is using the national fiberglass infrastructure. I'm speaking from experience that it's pretty competitive compared to fibre optic. KPN VDSL is almost always slower, and it comes with the added downside that if you DO watch tele, the TV box uses the same connection and as such costs you some extra bandwidth.

Now, taking the 90/9 or even: the 180/18 subscription will net you those speeds pretty much always... UNTIL you reach your "LAN". Nowadays Ziggo provides a modem/router/switch/NAT/accesspoint combo device... and quite frankly, the wireless part of it is pretty lousy. If you stick to a cable (and frankly, if you are gaming and streaming over Twitch, you should use a cable really..., it'd be like earning your daily bread with formula 1 racing and insisting that you use Renault Twingo tires on your otherwise top-notch car... OUTRIGHT SILLY!).

If you, however, DO insist on wireless, things complicate:
1. 2,4GHz or 5GHz -- one has better range but a very crowded ether, the other has speed and etherspace, but you'd better not put even a single sheet of paper between your laptop and the accesspoint, or you're plethorically fudged...
2. Ether cowding: especially inner-city apartments tend to have plenty of that. When I was living downtown London, I had 48 "competing" networks on the 2,4GHz bands... meaning that effectively I could not even use it, channels have a bit of overlap, and although there are 13, effectively due to the overlap "only" 3 completely free networks are possible. There's some slack when one network dies out range-wise that you can add another one, but that only goes so far. Also: can't have two radios broadcast at once on one frequency, that'd be chaos, so you'd have to take turns which cuts bandwith.
3. Same reason as above, you can't have two radios broadcast on one frequency, it almost always means that achieved bandwith is "cut in half", up- and down being only 50/50. In an utopian scenario where you manage to get 300mbit, that would cut your effective speed in half, maxing you out at 150.
4. More devices on one network. Same as above... divide that speed by the amount of devices please!
5. And then the complexity of connections... which is where the Ziggo combo-devices tend to fail. Wifi with all its "debugging" and "beamforming" is super complicated slowing things down even more. Or even crashing the poor accesspoint at certain stresses... stresses like games...

So, my advice would be, other than going for Ziggo, to ask them to put the modem in "bridging" mode. That effectively removes any feature other than "modeming" from the device. No more switch, no more routing, no more NAT, and best of all: no more wireless. At this point you can build your own network infrastructure. There are plenty of topics here on tweakers and reviews in the "pricewatch" to help you pick your own router. You can do anything you want with it, and a lot of them do have great wireless (providing your environment allows it... a babymonitor which tends to be on the same frequency can cripple it, as can garage door openers, microwaves, etc... also: reasons above). I'd stick to using your "own" network with ANY ISP, to be completely honest... in the UK I had issues with the BT/Sky/Virgin boxes as well... at least here you're not forced to use them! Just a simple call to Ziggo and request them to put the modem in bridging mode, and you're set.

But again... if possible, especially if twitch & gaming is your goal... do avoid wireless... especially in crowded city centers.

[StefanoNL]

Umbrah thanks for the detailed explanation!
Your point about wireless is true but I think it's not related only to Ziggo, it's applicable also now with KPN...just to say that it's not a specific Con for Ziggo.Or am I wrong?

Gaming wireless is bad I know...the problem is that in my house the phone plug is at the ground floor while the gaming pc is at the first floor. Unluckily I will have the same problem with Ziggo as the TV plug is at ground floor too. I will have to use a long ethernet cable as sometimes I do now. Though I don't always do it as this long cable in the middle of my house is not that nice to see.

Just a question about the TV plug...Ziggo is giving both internet and TV...that means that "the Ziggo box" will be plugged there. How the TV works then? Is it connected to the box via a standard TV cable or what?

The bridging mode is not that clear to me so I think I will search a bit online about that.

[CH4OS]

Why would you be without internet for a few days if you switch to cable (Ziggo) from ADSL (current provider)?
Ziggo uses a different technique for the internet connection, so you can switch without losing internet for a day.

Even if you choose to use a combination with for example telephone services, you'll get a temporary number from Ziggo. Later on it'll be switched to the old number you had.

I've seen it first hand, when my parents switched on my request.

You even do not have a one month overlap with two internet connections. When you know the date when the technicians are coming (or when the stuff has been brought to you when you are going to install it yourself), you can cancel the ADSL-connection.

[ Voor 20% gewijzigd door CH4OS op 25-10-2014 19:57 ]

[StefanoNL]

question about the bridging mode: can I start with the normal Ziggo box and then if not satisfied moving to "bridge modem" scenario???

[Sissors]

I don't know about the Ziggo one, but my UPC one (and previous ones i have had too), I could just login on the device and put it in bridge mode. Also you can just disable wireless if you want and put your own wireless router after it (and then that one in bridge mode). Have done that myself for a long time.

[Marco0445]

You can call Ziggo customer service and they can put your modem in bridge mode if you want. I would advice you to do this because the wireless range on the Ziggo modem/router is quite bad.

[CH4OS]

On top of a better wifi connection, the Ubee router from Ziggo also has some NAT issues. Putting the Ubee in bridge mode eliminates that as well, but you'll have to use your own router (even good ones are cheap nowadays).

[StefanoNL]

in order not to open a new thread: any suggestion on a good router to use for the wifi in case I use the Ziggo one in bridge mode? Thanks!!!

[Marco0445]

Take a look here: http://tweakers.net/categ...ems-en-routers/producten/

I personally have the TP-Link Archer C7 and it works pretty well.

[StefanoNL]

Marco0445 schreef op zaterdag 25 oktober 2014 @ 21:04:
You can call Ziggo customer service and they can put your modem in bridge mode if you want. I would advice you to do this because the wireless range on the Ziggo modem/router is quite bad.

you mean calling them before they come to me installing the line or I can call them also afterwards and they can put my modem in bridge mode remotely anytime? Not sure if it's hardware or software related...

[Marco0445]

They will put it in bridge mode anytime you want, it's a software setting that only the customer service can control.

PS: Here is a speedtest in case you are interested:

[ Voor 31% gewijzigd door Marco0445 op 25-10-2014 21:39 ]

[ThaHandy]

StefanoNL schreef op zaterdag 25 oktober 2014 @ 19:40:

Just a question about the TV plug...Ziggo is giving both internet and TV...that means that "the Ziggo box" will be plugged there. How the TV works then? Is it connected to the box via a standard TV cable or what?

You will get probably one of these in your installation kit. For TV, Data(cable modem) and analogue Radio.

Ziggo is providing Internet trough the Cable modem. Analogue TV and Digital TV (requires a Decoder) by using the "TV" plug. TV is not provided trough the Internet like KPN is doing.

Getting Ziggo you can provide your own start date. For example one or two weeks before your KPN contract ends.

[Equator]

Uhm guys, Tweakers and thus also this forum is Dutch only.. Start maar een nieuw topic in het Nederlands mocht je nog vragen hebben of stel ze in de grotere topics in dit subforum.

Dit topic gaat nu dicht..