Hallo,
Dit is een discussie op #linux op undernet.
Ik denk dat dit best een issue gaat worden als meer mensen linux gaan gebruiken.
Wat is jullie mening?
<vincent_> what is your opinion on a linux virus?
<PolarWolf> sucks if you get it, you won't look at windows again
<vincent_> I use linux for 2 years
<Tamahome> viruses on linux wouldn't spread as easily, unless you're dumb enough to do everything as root
<Tamahome> instead, linux people get to worry about exploits
<vincent_> thats the problem if more and more people start using linux
<Lion-O> duh.. there has been linux virii for ages, one of them is called gcj
<vincent_> i think it's mostly social engineering
<Tamahome> news to me
<Lion-O> anyway, the only virus you'll encounter is a trojan horse; damaging only your own stuff.
<vincent_> what would you do if you do if you see a popup which asked the root password for downloading the latest ubuntu updates
<Lion-O> vincent_: bit obvious I'd say.
<vincent_> (if you where someone who doesn't know anything about computers
<vincent_> You type the password? isn't it?
<Lion-O> vincent_: that still leaves you with a default of remote root login being locked down by default, linux systems which are totally incompatible to each other, etc, etc.
<Lion-O> vincent_: anyone as stupid as you describe them are hardly capable to install Linux, let alone update it.
<vincent_> the installation of linux is as easy as that of windows..
<Tamahome> fuck man, the mplayer manpage is a mess
<Lion-O> Tamahome: the gcj is a little joke; its the gnu variant of Java which is totally incompatible with the real stuff.
<PolarWolf> vincent_: There are quite a few provisions in place to prevent an unwitting user to install bad packages.
<vincent_> which/
<vincent_> ?
<PolarWolf> vincent_: digitally signed packages
<vincent_> but a lot of users don't check the checksum
<vincent_> because they are too lazy to do that
<vincent_> and i think that that is the problem
<Lion-O> anyway, you're just making up problems which aren't there. Any idea how many linux environments there are out there? Any idea which ones are patched and which are not?
<yoz> I want my psp back
<PolarWolf> vincent_: that's why any decent package installer does it for you and warns the user when something is b0rk
<Lion-O> Its not as if you can say "Hey, I have an exploit for 2.6.15, lets spread" because the chances are high it'll b0rk at the next node.
<PolarWolf> And yeah, platform diversity also helps
<Lion-O> virii on Linux are an utopia, apart from the trojan horse.
<vincent_> Think about software such as skype, they made a linux variant which you have to download from their site.
<vincent_> And not via a package installer
<vincent_> And there are lot's of peaple who click on every popup that tells them that it's funny
<PolarWolf> vincent_: *shrug* your risk. As always with installing stuff from teh internet
<vincent_> So if you do that. What is then done for protecting your computer?
<Lion-O> vincent_: I suggest you start by reading up on how Linux actually works. Any piece of software can be abused and misused. I fail to see your point here....
<Tamahome> he's trolling, duuuh
<PolarWolf> vincent_: Zip
<Lion-O> PolarWolf: depends.
<PolarWolf> vincent_: If you shoot yourself in the foot with linux, linux won't prevent you
<PolarWolf> Emergency room virit
<PolarWolf> err, visit
<Lion-O> Depends on the distribution.. If the idiot is using lackware, sure.. But if he's using SuSE or an SELinux enabled distro....
<PolarWolf> Lion-O: Those are in the minority and a royal pain to operate
<Lion-O> point is; you can't talk in absolutes here.
<vincent_> I think the problem is the stupidity of people, how secure the os is doesn't matter.
<vincent_> But is there a way of protecting the systems of those stupid people?
<Lion-O> I think its time for a beer.
<PolarWolf> Yeah, don't let them do anything stupid
<PolarWolf> The only way to do that is force stupid people to run a locked down system
<PolarWolf> Ain't gonna work
<vincent_> So the conclusion is, it's an utopia to protect stupid peaple from ruining there computer?
<Lion-O> is it?
<vincent_> That's what polarwolf said
<Lion-O> man, thats sure a lot of generalizing going on in here.
<vincent_> But i think this is gonna be an issue when linux becomes more populair
<Lion-O> rofl* libolt has quit (Read error: EOF from client
<Gromet> Offtopic: -1, any of you guys know a good telescope when you see one?
<PolarWolf> It's already an issue on any OS, why would it be any different on linux?
<Lion-O> vincent_: thats what they said last year, and the year before, and before that.
<PolarWolf> Besides, it's been the year of linux for the last decade. Old hat.
<vincent_> It is not different on linux, but a lot of people say it is different..
<Tamahome> you can shoot yourself in the foot with any OS
<Tamahome> you just have to be stupid enough to think you know what you're doing
<vincent__> What about a virus scanner, it warns you when you are shooting yourself in the foot.
<Lion-O> what about it?
<Tamahome> I'm not just talking about viruses.
<vincent__> yes, Will that solve the problem..
<Lion-O> vincent_: now I'm sure you're trolling.
<PolarWolf> Virus scanners aren't a solution
<Lion-O> vincent_: a moment ago you said "anyone can install Linux", "people are dumb". So why would dumb people install a virus scanner?
<PolarWolf> At best they're a "after the fact" stopgap measure for poor design
<Lion-O> vincent_: then lets continue, you said "people click on anything". So why would they click "no" if the virus scanner warned them when their favorite pr0n comes in?
<vincent__> Because it is installed by default (like most things on linux)
<Lion-O> rofl!
<vincent__> Because they know their virusscanner works.
<Lion-O> vincent_: Ok, the trolling ends here. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
<PolarWolf> vincent__: The problem is; it doesn't
<vincent__> Why not?
<PolarWolf> vincent__: Virusscanners are at most 70% or so effective, and like I said, they're always reactive
<Lion-O> first people click on anything, now people suddenly will go ahead with what the virus scanner says? you're twisting your own words and plots here.
<PolarWolf> They're at the losing side of the malware arms race
<Steakk> did someone mention pr0n a few minutes ago?
<Lion-O> Steakk: YEAH
<Steakk> wh00t
<Steakk> Pron...abstinence is in the palm of your hand...
<Lion-O> rofl
<Qaldune> lol
<Lion-O> hmm, 2 more CD's and my blade box has been upgraded.
Dit is een discussie op #linux op undernet.
Ik denk dat dit best een issue gaat worden als meer mensen linux gaan gebruiken.
Wat is jullie mening?
<vincent_> what is your opinion on a linux virus?
<PolarWolf> sucks if you get it, you won't look at windows again
<vincent_> I use linux for 2 years
<Tamahome> viruses on linux wouldn't spread as easily, unless you're dumb enough to do everything as root
<Tamahome> instead, linux people get to worry about exploits
<vincent_> thats the problem if more and more people start using linux
<Lion-O> duh.. there has been linux virii for ages, one of them is called gcj
<vincent_> i think it's mostly social engineering
<Tamahome> news to me
<Lion-O> anyway, the only virus you'll encounter is a trojan horse; damaging only your own stuff.
<vincent_> what would you do if you do if you see a popup which asked the root password for downloading the latest ubuntu updates
<Lion-O> vincent_: bit obvious I'd say.
<vincent_> (if you where someone who doesn't know anything about computers
<vincent_> You type the password? isn't it?
<Lion-O> vincent_: that still leaves you with a default of remote root login being locked down by default, linux systems which are totally incompatible to each other, etc, etc.
<Lion-O> vincent_: anyone as stupid as you describe them are hardly capable to install Linux, let alone update it.
<vincent_> the installation of linux is as easy as that of windows..
<Tamahome> fuck man, the mplayer manpage is a mess
<Lion-O> Tamahome: the gcj is a little joke; its the gnu variant of Java which is totally incompatible with the real stuff.
<PolarWolf> vincent_: There are quite a few provisions in place to prevent an unwitting user to install bad packages.
<vincent_> which/
<vincent_> ?
<PolarWolf> vincent_: digitally signed packages
<vincent_> but a lot of users don't check the checksum
<vincent_> because they are too lazy to do that
<vincent_> and i think that that is the problem
<Lion-O> anyway, you're just making up problems which aren't there. Any idea how many linux environments there are out there? Any idea which ones are patched and which are not?
<yoz> I want my psp back
<PolarWolf> vincent_: that's why any decent package installer does it for you and warns the user when something is b0rk
<Lion-O> Its not as if you can say "Hey, I have an exploit for 2.6.15, lets spread" because the chances are high it'll b0rk at the next node.
<PolarWolf> And yeah, platform diversity also helps
<Lion-O> virii on Linux are an utopia, apart from the trojan horse.
<vincent_> Think about software such as skype, they made a linux variant which you have to download from their site.
<vincent_> And not via a package installer
<vincent_> And there are lot's of peaple who click on every popup that tells them that it's funny
<PolarWolf> vincent_: *shrug* your risk. As always with installing stuff from teh internet
<vincent_> So if you do that. What is then done for protecting your computer?
<Lion-O> vincent_: I suggest you start by reading up on how Linux actually works. Any piece of software can be abused and misused. I fail to see your point here....
<Tamahome> he's trolling, duuuh
<PolarWolf> vincent_: Zip
<Lion-O> PolarWolf: depends.
<PolarWolf> vincent_: If you shoot yourself in the foot with linux, linux won't prevent you
<PolarWolf> Emergency room virit
<PolarWolf> err, visit
<Lion-O> Depends on the distribution.. If the idiot is using lackware, sure.. But if he's using SuSE or an SELinux enabled distro....
<PolarWolf> Lion-O: Those are in the minority and a royal pain to operate
<Lion-O> point is; you can't talk in absolutes here.
<vincent_> I think the problem is the stupidity of people, how secure the os is doesn't matter.
<vincent_> But is there a way of protecting the systems of those stupid people?
<Lion-O> I think its time for a beer.
<PolarWolf> Yeah, don't let them do anything stupid
<PolarWolf> The only way to do that is force stupid people to run a locked down system
<PolarWolf> Ain't gonna work
<vincent_> So the conclusion is, it's an utopia to protect stupid peaple from ruining there computer?
<Lion-O> is it?
<vincent_> That's what polarwolf said
<Lion-O> man, thats sure a lot of generalizing going on in here.
<vincent_> But i think this is gonna be an issue when linux becomes more populair
<Lion-O> rofl* libolt has quit (Read error: EOF from client
<Gromet> Offtopic: -1, any of you guys know a good telescope when you see one?
<PolarWolf> It's already an issue on any OS, why would it be any different on linux?
<Lion-O> vincent_: thats what they said last year, and the year before, and before that.
<PolarWolf> Besides, it's been the year of linux for the last decade. Old hat.
<vincent_> It is not different on linux, but a lot of people say it is different..
<Tamahome> you can shoot yourself in the foot with any OS
<Tamahome> you just have to be stupid enough to think you know what you're doing
<vincent__> What about a virus scanner, it warns you when you are shooting yourself in the foot.
<Lion-O> what about it?
<Tamahome> I'm not just talking about viruses.
<vincent__> yes, Will that solve the problem..
<Lion-O> vincent_: now I'm sure you're trolling.
<PolarWolf> Virus scanners aren't a solution
<Lion-O> vincent_: a moment ago you said "anyone can install Linux", "people are dumb". So why would dumb people install a virus scanner?
<PolarWolf> At best they're a "after the fact" stopgap measure for poor design
<Lion-O> vincent_: then lets continue, you said "people click on anything". So why would they click "no" if the virus scanner warned them when their favorite pr0n comes in?
<vincent__> Because it is installed by default (like most things on linux)
<Lion-O> rofl!
<vincent__> Because they know their virusscanner works.
<Lion-O> vincent_: Ok, the trolling ends here. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.
<PolarWolf> vincent__: The problem is; it doesn't
<vincent__> Why not?
<PolarWolf> vincent__: Virusscanners are at most 70% or so effective, and like I said, they're always reactive
<Lion-O> first people click on anything, now people suddenly will go ahead with what the virus scanner says? you're twisting your own words and plots here.
<PolarWolf> They're at the losing side of the malware arms race
<Steakk> did someone mention pr0n a few minutes ago?
<Lion-O> Steakk: YEAH
<Steakk> wh00t
<Steakk> Pron...abstinence is in the palm of your hand...
<Lion-O> rofl
<Qaldune> lol
<Lion-O> hmm, 2 more CD's and my blade box has been upgraded.