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<message_content>&#60;blockquote&#62;&#60;div&#62;quote:&#60;/div&#62;&#60;div class="message-quote-div"&#62;&#60;b&#62;&#60;a href="http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_message/29537265#29537265" rel="external" class="messagelink"&#62;curry684 schreef op vrijdag 01 februari 2008 @ 20:14&#60;/a&#62;:&#60;/b&#62;&#60;br&#62;
[...]&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Nou succes de rest van je leven dan in een huurhuis in loondienst, want zowel een huis kopen als ondernemen gaan redelijk per definitie gepaard met schulden.&#60;/div&#62;&#60;/blockquote&#62;Mja, d&#38;#039;r zit een verschil tussen lenen en het aangaan van een hypotheek met onderpand / ondernemen &#60;img src="http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/smile.gif" width="15"  height="15" alt=":)" class="smiley"&#62; Dat is gewoon investeren &#60;img src="http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/smile.gif" width="15"  height="15" alt=":)" class="smiley"&#62; Lenen voor luxeproducten (wat zo verheerlijkt wordt door Frisia en consorten) zouden ze serieus aan banden moeten leggen imho &#60;img src="http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/smile.gif" width="15"  height="15" alt=":)" class="smiley"&#62;</message_content>
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<message_date>vrijdag 01 februari 2008 20:20</message_date>
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<message_poster_firstname>Sander</message_poster_firstname>
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<message_content>Ja wat zeg je nu? Naar mijn bescheiden mening is een gedegen hogere opleiding ook een investering hoor &#60;img src="http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/bonk.gif" width="30"  height="17" alt="8)7" class="smiley"&#62;</message_content>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/29537340/2</message_replywquotelink>
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<message_content>&#60;blockquote&#62;&#60;div&#62;quote:&#60;/div&#62;&#60;div class="message-quote-div"&#62;&#60;b&#62;&#60;a href="http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_message/29537327#29537327" rel="external" class="messagelink"&#62;curry684 schreef op vrijdag 01 februari 2008 @ 20:24&#60;/a&#62;:&#60;/b&#62;&#60;br&#62;
Ja wat zeg je nu? Naar mijn bescheiden mening is een gedegen hogere opleiding ook een investering hoor &#60;img src="http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/bonk.gif" width="30"  height="17" alt="8)7" class="smiley"&#62;&#60;/div&#62;&#60;/blockquote&#62;Tuurlijk, dat riep ik eerder ook al: als je moet, dan moet je. Opleiding is het belangrijkste. &#60;img src="http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/smile.gif" width="15"  height="15" alt=":)" class="smiley"&#62;&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Maar daarnaast wordt er vaak stevig geleend terwijl men het er behoorlijk van neemt (lees 1-2x per week uitgaan en er gerust 20-30 euro per avond doorheen draaien), nieuwe mobiele telefoons/camera&#38;#039;s, dure abonnementen, behoorlijk luxe vakanties, etc. Dat zie ik iig in mijn omgeving geregeld gebeuren terwijl ze dus eigenlijk structureel geld tekort komen (anders leen je niet bij de IBG).&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Dat is dan geen investeren in je studie meer &#60;img src="http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/smile.gif" width="15"  height="15" alt=":)" class="smiley"&#62;</message_content>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/29537451/2</message_replywquotelink>
<message_date_timestamp>1201895142</message_date_timestamp>
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<message_content>Hmja.. dat heb je overal.. daarom is er &#38;#039;werk&#38;#039; uitgevonden &#60;img src="http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/wink.gif" width="15"  height="15" alt=";)" class="smiley"&#62;</message_content>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/29537519/2</message_replywquotelink>
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<message_content>&#60;blockquote&#62;&#60;div&#62;quote:&#60;/div&#62;&#60;div class="message-quote-div"&#62;&#60;b&#62;&#60;a href="http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_message/29537066#29537066" rel="external" class="messagelink"&#62;geenstijl schreef op vrijdag 01 februari 2008 @ 19:33&#60;/a&#62;:&#60;/b&#62;&#60;br&#62;
Ik mis een beetje de morele bezwaren in deze discussie.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
...&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Maar goed, mensen die wat tientjes per jaar willen verdienen staan juridisch gezien natuurlijk gewoon in hun recht, maar moreel gezien vind ik het niet kunnen.&#60;/div&#62;&#60;/blockquote&#62;Je kan er denk ik over discussieren of gebruik maken van de mogelijkheden die in het systeem zitten (er is namelijk een maandelijks bedrag vastgesteld en met dat bedrag ben ik binnen de 15 jaar van mijn schuld af) immoreel is. Extra aflossen is op het moment een optie, niet de norm. &#60;br&#62;
Nu hoeft wat in de wetten/regels staat zeker niet overeen te komen met de moraal van personen of groepen, maar ik begrijp uit jouw reactie dat de regels omtrent het terugbetalen van de studieschuld aangescherpt zouden moeten worden?</message_content>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/29537551/2</message_replywquotelink>
<message_date_timestamp>1201896341</message_date_timestamp>
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<message_content>Nee, ik wil het systeem niet aanpassen.&#60;br&#62;
Het enige wat je mijns inziens zou kunnen doen is het moment van terug te betalen/min. terug te betalen te koppelen aan het inkomen.&#60;br&#62;
Ik vind het zeker belangrijk dat pas afgestudeerden niet te veel geld kwijt zijn zodat ze actieve consumenten zijn, daarom ook in mijn verhaal het punt over niet terugbetalen om wat tientjes winst te halen. D&#225;t is iets waar ik moeite mee heb.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Een schuld opbouwen voor een investering (als in: lenen tijdens de studie, hypotheek) vind ik anders dan een schuld houden terwijl je die terug kan betalen. Het systeem is niet ingesteld om ervoor te zorgen dat je met het geleende geld nog wat kan verdienen, terwijl je mogelijkheden zat hebt om het geld terug te betalen.&#60;br&#62;
Misschien had ik dat wat duidelijker kunnen verwoorden.</message_content>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/29540571/2</message_replywquotelink>
<message_date_timestamp>1201967044</message_date_timestamp>
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<message_content>Toch vind ik de redenatie lastig. Ik kan er namelijk voor kiezen om het geld niet opzij te zetten en gewoon mijn uitgavenpatroon af te stemmen op wat ik verdien, waarbij ik dan alleen rekening hou met het maandelijks verplichte aflosbedrag. In dat geval heb ik geen geld over om die schuld af te betalen, maar het lijkt me niet zo dat ik dan opeens wel moreel verantwoord bezig ben.&#60;br&#62;
De essentie is uiteindelijk: hoe besteed ik het geld dat ik verdien na mijn afstuderen en zelfs dat valt niet goed te beoordelen, want die hoeveelheid geld is ook weer afhankelijk van bijvoorbeeld hoe hard en hoeveel ik werk en wat voor soort werk ik doe. Als ik besluit 15 jaar lang alleen maar vrijwilligerswerk te doen en op bijstandniveau te leven dan kan ik zelfs mijn schuld niet aflossen en wordt deze kwijtgescholden. Besluit ik in hartje Amsterdam te willen wonen met een tophypotheek dan hou ik ook geen geld over om extra af te lossen. De omstandigheid dat ik kan sparen / geld opzij kan zetten is het gevolg van bepaalde keuzes die ik heb gemaakt. Ik denk niet dat die keuzes mij een grotere morele verplichting geven om geld af te lossen tov van mensen die andere keuzes hebben gemaakt en daardoor in een andere financiele positie zitten. Oftewel: klopt het niet wat ik doe, dan moet het systeem aangepast worden &#60;img src="http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/smile.gif" width="15"  height="15" alt=":)" class="smiley"&#62;</message_content>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/30045966/2</message_replywquotelink>
<message_date_timestamp>1210348125</message_date_timestamp>
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<message_content>Flinke schop, maar het is nu wel actueel, zie de voorpagina &#60;img src="http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/smile.gif" width="15"  height="15" alt=":)" class="smiley"&#62;&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
&#60;a href="http://www.depers.nl/UserFiles/File/De%20Pers%20vrijdag%209%20mei%202008.pdf" title="http://www.depers.nl/UserFiles/File/De%20Pers%20vrijdag%209%20mei%202008.pdf" rel="external"&#62;http://www.depers.nl/User...jdag%209%20mei%202008.pdf&#60;/a&#62;</message_content>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/30046033/2</message_replywquotelink>
<message_date_timestamp>1210349413</message_date_timestamp>
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<message_content>Lekker ook dat ze in het laatste stukje praten over een &#38;quot;Studie Taks&#38;quot;. Het is in nederland toch al zo dat je meer belasting betaald als je meer verdiend. Ik snap niet dat ze tegewoordig overal een nieuwe &#38;quot;Taks&#38;quot; voor in moeten voeren. Het word er allemaal alleen maar complexer op.</message_content>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/30046339/2</message_replywquotelink>
<message_date_timestamp>1210354259</message_date_timestamp>
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<message_content>Als je binnen afzienbare tijd geen grote uitgaven verwacht zou ik het bedrag in 1x aflossen als je kan. Anders ik het toch zonde van de betaalde rente.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Mensen denken als je zeg maar &#164; 10.000  lenen. Bij een rentepercentage van 8%. Vele denken zullen denken oh dat is &#164; 800 rente, maar kredietverstrekkers rekenen met RENTE op RENTE. Hierdoor is de werkelijk rentepost over de totale lening vele malen hoger. Daarom denk goed na voordat je gaat lenen!&#60;blockquote&#62;&#60;div&#62;quote:&#60;/div&#62;&#60;div class="message-quote-div"&#62;&#60;b&#62;&#60;a href="http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_message/29476010#29476010" rel="external" class="messagelink"&#62;IceManX schreef op dinsdag 22 januari 2008 @ 20:45&#60;/a&#62;:&#60;/b&#62;&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Lijkt mij dus wel degelijk aftrekbaar?&#60;/div&#62;&#60;/blockquote&#62;Het is te verreken met dingen waar je rendementen kan halen. Zoals vermogensbelasting als je meer dan 20.014 euro bezit, aandelenbelang tot 5%, 2e woning. Enzo.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
De rente is ieder geval NIET aftrekbaar in box 3: belastbaar inkomen uit sparen en beleggen. (effectief 1,2% rente)&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Dit is horizontale verrekening. Dus verrekening binnen de boxen. Je mag box 3 niet verrekenen met de andere boxen!!!!. Je mag wel box 3 verrekening met 1 achterliggend jaar en 8 jaren daarop vooruit. Dit is verticale verrekening. &#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
studiekosten zijn in box 1: belastbaar inkomen uit werk en inkomen(progressief tarief) aftrekbaar indien:&#60;br&#62;
- Het meer is dan 500 euro in 1 jaar&#60;br&#62;
- betreft alleen lesgeld, boekengeld en examengeld.&#60;br&#62;
- tevens moet het beroepsgericht zijn. Bijv. een MBA-opleiding.</message_content>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/30046656/2</message_replywquotelink>
<message_date_timestamp>1210359342</message_date_timestamp>
<message_age>16662617</message_age>
<message_oldage>1</message_oldage>
<message_content>Ik heb ook in een dergelijke situatie gezeten. Na mijn studie had ik een schuld van ongeveer &#164; 1500,00. Ik kreeg hier netjes een brief van de IB van met de mededeling dat ik per maand &#164; 45,- moest betalen. &#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Ik heb toen ook contact opgenomen met de IB-groep met de vraag of ik het bedrag in &#233;&#233;n keer terug kon storten. Dit was wel mogelijk, maar volgens de betreffende medewerker had hij niet de mogelijkheid om mij hiervoor een formulier o.i.d. te sturen. Ik moest het maar gewoon storten en dan het betreffende bankafschrift goed bewaren. &#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Op de vraag hoe men dan wist dat het geld geheel bestemd was voor de aflossing van mijn studieschuld, kreeg ik als antwoord dat men dan ging uitzoeken waarom dat bedrag was gestort en dat dit dan waarschijnlijk wel verrekend zou worden met mijn studieschuld. &#60;img src="http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/shutup.gif" width="15"  height="16" alt=":X" class="smiley"&#62; &#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Vanwege eerder gezeur met de IB-groep heb ik toen maar besloten om het bedrag niet in &#233;&#233;n keer te storten, maar gewoon een afschrijving van &#164; 45,- per maand te laten doen.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Ben wel een tijdje mee bezig geweest om het af te lossen, maar dit is nu geheel gedaan. Nu verder (gelukkig) niks meer met de IB groep van doen !! Ik heb ook nog bij een belastingsconsulent nagevraagd of ik iets met deze schuld en de bijbehorende aflossing kon doen, maar dit was niet mogelijk  &#60;img src="http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/frown.gif" width="15"  height="15" alt=":(" class="smiley"&#62;</message_content>
<message_id>30046656</message_id>
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<message_poster_sex>Male</message_poster_sex>
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<message_poster_signature>Wat zit je te kijken ? Valt er iets te lezen ofzo ?</message_poster_signature>
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</section>
<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/30046660/2</message_replywquotelink>
<message_date_timestamp>1210359383</message_date_timestamp>
<message_age>16662576</message_age>
<message_oldage>1</message_oldage>
<message_content>Uiteraard wordt er gerekend met rente op rente. Het is nogal naief om te denken dat het eenmalig 8% is of alleen maar 8% over het basisbedrag.</message_content>
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</section>
<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/30047167/2</message_replywquotelink>
<message_date_timestamp>1210366563</message_date_timestamp>
<message_age>16655396</message_age>
<message_oldage>1</message_oldage>
<message_content>&#60;blockquote&#62;&#60;div&#62;quote:&#60;/div&#62;&#60;div class="message-quote-div"&#62;&#60;b&#62;&#60;a href="http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_message/30046033#30046033" rel="external" class="messagelink"&#62;rwb schreef op vrijdag 09 mei 2008 @ 18:10&#60;/a&#62;:&#60;/b&#62;&#60;br&#62;
Lekker ook dat ze in het laatste stukje praten over een &#38;quot;Studie Taks&#38;quot;. Het is in nederland toch al zo dat je meer belasting betaald als je meer verdiend. Ik snap niet dat ze tegewoordig overal een nieuwe &#38;quot;Taks&#38;quot; voor in moeten voeren. Het word er allemaal alleen maar complexer op.&#60;/div&#62;&#60;/blockquote&#62;Die mogen ze inderdaad steken waar het licht niet schijnt. Waarom moeten de mensen die wel braaf hebben gewerkt naast de studie en geen schuld hebben opgebouwd opeens die kosten ophoesten? Natuurlijk, er zijn gevallen waarbij het bijlenen van dermate hoge bedragen ook echt nodig is (sommige betastudies, medicijnen, etc). &#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Maar als ik om mij heen kijk op de opleidingen, dan leent men gerust flink bij om vervolgens gewoon met Iphone of iets dergelijks te lopen. Of de boodschappen worden gewoon bij de Appie Heijn gedaan. Het dringt schijnbaar gewoon niet door dat het geen eigen geld is. In dat opzicht ben ik het eens dat het te makkelijk is, waarbij de IB-groep dat gemak ook nog eens flink faciliteert.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Dat is het kromme: ze komen dan vaak rond van stufi + bijlenen voor de vaste lasten / schoolkosten. Er wordt geregeld wel bijgewerkt, maar dat geld is dan vrij te besteden. Nonsens, dat geld zou je -tot op zekere hoogte- moeten gebruiken om je studieschuld minder hard op te laten lopen. Op een houtje bijten is een ander uiterste, maar luxe meuk kopen terwijl je bij moet lenen is imho not done.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Geen haar op mijn hoofd die eraan denkt om daaraan mee te betalen tbh &#60;img src="http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/smile.gif" width="15"  height="15" alt=":)" class="smiley"&#62;</message_content>
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<message_poster_firstname>Sander</message_poster_firstname>
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</section>
<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/30048196/2</message_replywquotelink>
<message_date_timestamp>1210409535</message_date_timestamp>
<message_age>16612424</message_age>
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<message_content>Ik zit er zelf ook een beetje mee. 9600 euro schuld op een rente van 3,8 procent. Met een inflatie van 3.5% en een rente op m&#38;#039;n spaarrekening van 3.75% is het net niet de moeite waard om die schuld vooruit te schuiven. Of de inflatie moet nog verder omhoog. &#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Aan de andere kant, ik sta aan het begin van m&#38;#039;n carri&#233;re en ga er waarschijnlijk per jaar meer dan 3,8 procent op voorruit. Daarmee zou je kunnen zeggen dat mijn persoonlijke inflatie wel hoger is dan 3,8 %. M.a.w. is 1000 euro voor mij nu nog een smak geld, over 5 jaar is het voor wellicht veel minder. Tenzij ik over een paar jaar aan kinderen ga beginnen natuurlijk.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
nouja, hoe dan ook, momenteel heb ik toch geen 9600 euro liggen, maar ik zou bijvoorbeeld wel op driedubbele snelheid kunnen aflossen oid.</message_content>
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<message_poster_signature>-- SoftwareSystems the_Tzar(Coffee coffee){ //the only method you need... -- &#60;a href="http://specs.tweak.to/5756" rel="external nofollow"&#62;specs workstation&#60;/a&#62;</message_poster_signature>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/30048619/2</message_replywquotelink>
<message_date_timestamp>1210416199</message_date_timestamp>
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<message_content>Rente op rente is bij de IBG ook geen probleem, je schuld wordt namelijk na 15 jaar kwijt gescholden. Zelf heb ik ondanks niet afgeronde opleiding best een hoge schuld, maar zijdelings ben ik bezig met het halen van papiertjes, en wat ervaring wat ik tijdens de studie heb opgedaan heeft er tot geleidt dat het bedrag wat ik netto om mijn bankrekening krijg vele malen hoger ligt dan wat ik kwijt ben aan het aflossen van de studieschuld. &#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Zonder studieschuld had ik op dit moment:&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
- Geen leaseauto onder de kont klasse golf&#60;br&#62;
- Leuke/Interresante baan&#60;br&#62;
- Bovenmodaal inkomen&#60;br&#62;
- Keuze uit diverse werkgevers&#60;br&#62;
- Terugblik op studietijd + bijbehorende &#38;#039;oorlogsverhalen&#38;#039; &#60;br&#62;
- Op materiaal vlak alles wat mijn hart begeert.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Echter zijn er inderdaad ook leningen in de category riskant:&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Vooral de mensen die lenen om rond te kunnen komen, in combinatie met binnenstromende aanmaningen zijn vaak gigantisch het haasje. Vooral veranderingen in werk situaties in combinatie met tijdelijke contracten zijn gigantische risico groepen. &#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
De IBG kan je in zulke situaties even stil zetten, maar de leningen van Dirk blijven gewoon doorlopen. Aangezien een luxe-lening een situatie is waarin er weinig spaargeld is ontstaan er vaak gaten die weer met leningen opgevuld worden. &#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Op zich is er met lenen weinig mis, mits je de risico&#38;#039;s op financieel vlak gewoon erg goed afdekt. Dat is alleen iets wat bijvoorbeeld niet slim is met bijvoorbeeld met het aanschaffen van huishoudelijke apparaten. Voor de cruciale apparaten en situaties waarin ik zonder werk zit heb ik voormezelf de stelregel om 2 maandsalarissen op de bank te hebben.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Luxe artikelen vervang ik overigens minder snel als dezen kapot gaan, en zaken zoals Hi-Fi, hobbies, etc doe ik van financiele meevallers.</message_content>
<message_id>30048619</message_id>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/30049725/2</message_replywquotelink>
<message_date_timestamp>1210432079</message_date_timestamp>
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<message_content>Sinds wanneer wordt je schuld na 15 jaar kwijtgescholden? Volgens mij moet je het gewoon afbetalen &#60;img src="http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/confused.gif" width="19"  height="15" alt=":?" class="smiley"&#62; &#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Anyway, het is inderdaad wel leuk zo&#38;#039;n papiertje, maar aan de andere kant, zolang de overheid maar zoveel mogelijk mensen door die opleidingen heen blijft pompen, wordt zo&#38;#039;n papiertje relatief ook steeds minder waard.</message_content>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/30050202/2</message_replywquotelink>
<message_date_timestamp>1210440973</message_date_timestamp>
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<message_content>Dat is al sinds tijden. Als je het niet kunt aflossen dien je een draagkracht meting aan te vragen. Je betaalt dan wat je kan betalen. En de rest wordt na 15 jaar kwijtgescholden. Ik weet niet of het altijd zo geweest is maar het het bestaat iig al jaaaaaren.</message_content>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/30051225/2</message_replywquotelink>
<message_date_timestamp>1210462021</message_date_timestamp>
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<message_content>Dat is al sinds het leningconcept bestaat ja.</message_content>
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</section>
<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/30060176/2</message_replywquotelink>
<message_date_timestamp>1210672397</message_date_timestamp>
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<message_content>Persoonlijk vind ik het hele huidige systeem de grootste flauwekul. Zowel ik als mijn vrouw komen uit een gezin dat niet kon bijdragen aan de studie. Zij heeft een studieschuld van 25K en ik van 75K (ik heb mijn studie niet voltooid).&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
We hebben echter beiden een goede baan en dragen ruim bij aan de belasting (inkomen ~80K per jaar). Persoonlijk vindt ik het behoorlijk beroerd dat mijn kennissen/vrienden hetzelfde verdienen, ongeveer evenlang van studiefinanciering gebruik hebben gemaakt, maar geen 800 euro per maand aan IBG hoeven af te lossen. Door deze &#38;#039;maatregel&#38;#039; is de belastingdruk (overheid, gemeente, ibg) op ons inkomen boven de 50%. Het suffe is dat het niet van het inkomen afgetrokken mag worden en we verdienen teveel voor alles waar wel toeslagen bestaan.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Het meest vreemde is dat toen mijn vrouw en ik aan het rekenen gingen, we er gewoon netto op vooruit gingen als een van ons stopte met werken. Compleet van de zotten imo.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Het is gewoon een verkapte belastingheffing, waarbij mensen die minder vermogend waren tijdens hun studie of deze om redenen niet konden voltooien keihard genaaid worden.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Mocht je geen rijke ouders hebben, dan adviseer ik geen stufi aan te vragen en een baantje ernaast te zoeken. Je kan de studiekosten dan volledig aftrekken en bouwt geen schulden op, wat je verdient is gewoon van jou.</message_content>
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<message_poster_firstname>Joep</message_poster_firstname>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/30060351/2</message_replywquotelink>
<message_date_timestamp>1210674270</message_date_timestamp>
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<message_content>Het is natuurlijk belachelijk dat jullie er financieel op vooruit zouden gaan wanneer &#233;&#233;n van jullie zou stoppen.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Ik vind het wel heel normaal dat wanneer iemand zijn/haar studie niet afrond, het geleende bedrag volledig terug betaald moet worden. Het moet niet zo zijn dat je het geld vrijblijvend krijgt. Volgens mij zijn er al teveel studenten die te makkelijk stoppen met hun studie. Ja, er zijn altijd situaties waardoor je buiten je eigen schuld moet stoppen met je studie, maar om dan maar de maatschappij voor alle kosten van de drop-outs op te laten draaien vind ik een bijzonder slecht idee.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Misschien moeten studenten beter geinformeerd worden over de impact van het lenen van grote sommen geld&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Wat ik ook vreemd vind is waar het geld vaak aan op gaat, laatst was er nog iets van op TV. Een meid die 35k geleend had en daarvan naar Azie e.d. op vakantie ging. Zij zag dan ook wel in dat ze er in de toekomst nog lang voor zou moeten blijven betalen, ookal onderschatte zij het een beetje.</message_content>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/30060430/2</message_replywquotelink>
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<message_content>&#60;blockquote&#62;&#60;div&#62;quote:&#60;/div&#62;&#60;div class="message-quote-div"&#62;&#60;b&#62;&#60;a href="http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_message/30060351#30060351" rel="external" class="messagelink"&#62;Abom schreef op dinsdag 13 mei 2008 @ 12:24&#60;/a&#62;:&#60;/b&#62;&#60;br&#62;
Het is natuurlijk belachelijk dat jullie er financieel op vooruit zouden gaan wanneer &#233;&#233;n van jullie zou stoppen.&#60;/div&#62;&#60;/blockquote&#62;Dat geldt voor wel meer zaken, iemand die net boven bijstandsniveau verdient, heeft hetzelfde vaak, maar haal je daar voldoening uit?&#60;blockquote&#62;&#60;div&#62;quote:&#60;/div&#62;&#60;div class="message-quote-div"&#62;...&#60;br&#62;
Misschien moeten studenten beter geinformeerd worden over de impact van het lenen van grote sommen geld&#60;/div&#62;&#60;/blockquote&#62;Ik kreeg gewoon te horen dat ik het moest terugbetalen hoor, studenten zijn niet dom, ze kiezen er voor. Zeker als je alleen een gewone beurs krijgt en extra leent, weet je vanaf dag 1 dat je het moet terug betalen&#60;blockquote&#62;&#60;div&#62;quote:&#60;/div&#62;&#60;div class="message-quote-div"&#62;Wat ik ook vreemd vind is waar het geld vaak aan op gaat, laatst was er nog iets van op TV. Een meid die 35k geleend had en daarvan naar Azie e.d. op vakantie ging. Zij zag dan ook wel in dat ze er in de toekomst nog lang voor zou moeten blijven betalen, ookal onderschatte zij het een beetje.&#60;/div&#62;&#60;/blockquote&#62;Idd (Hoewel ik het zelf ook gedaan heb a 1500 euro) Maar anders ga je naar een declaratie systeem oid, want je hebt natuurlijk ook een groep waar de ouders neit willen betalen en die vanuit schubbekutteveen naar een grote stad moeten verhuizen en geen tijd hebben om te werken, die zullen die extra centen wel gewoon nodig hebben om te leven (lees: huur, eten, school)</message_content>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/30060437/2</message_replywquotelink>
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<message_content>Laat ik dit topic dan maar even in 2 korte zinnen oplossen:&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Financieel gezien is de lening in 1 keer terug betalen slecht. Moreel/psychologisch gezien is in 1 keer aflossen beter.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Ik kies voor de eerste optie.</message_content>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/30060733/2</message_replywquotelink>
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<message_content>&#60;blockquote&#62;&#60;div&#62;quote:&#60;/div&#62;&#60;div class="message-quote-div"&#62;&#60;b&#62;&#60;a href="http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_message/30060430#30060430" rel="external" class="messagelink"&#62;Jaspertje schreef op dinsdag 13 mei 2008 @ 12:39&#60;/a&#62;:&#60;/b&#62;&#60;br&#62;
[...]&#60;br&#62;
Ik kreeg gewoon te horen dat ik het moest terugbetalen hoor, studenten zijn niet dom, ze kiezen er voor. Zeker als je alleen een gewone beurs krijgt en extra leent, weet je vanaf dag 1 dat je het moet terug betalen&#60;/div&#62;&#60;/blockquote&#62;Je hoort inderdaad regelmatig dat studenten beter voorgelicht zouden moeten worden. Opzich vind ik dat ook onzin, zoals jij ook al aangeeft weet iedereen dat het geld na de studie terugbetaald moet worden.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Daarbij kan iedere student/scholier uitrekenen dat &#164;500 per maand lenen een schuld van &#164;6.000 per jaar oplevert, bij een studie van 5 jaar is dit &#164;30.000. Daar komt dan nog wat rente bij. Je hoeft echt geen wiskunde of economie te studeren om uit te rekenen dat dat veel geld is. (Al is dat ook maar relatief, met een afbetaling van &#164;200 per maand ben je na 15 jaar schuldenvrij, opzich geen geld voor een mooie studententijd.)</message_content>
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<section title="list_messages_message"><message_replywquotelink>http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/quote_message/30061123/2</message_replywquotelink>
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<message_content>&#60;blockquote&#62;&#60;div&#62;quote:&#60;/div&#62;&#60;div class="message-quote-div"&#62;Ware het niet dat de rente op een goeie spaarrekening praktisch hoger is dan de leenrente van de IBG&#60;/div&#62;&#60;/blockquote&#62;&#60;blockquote&#62;&#60;div&#62;quote:&#60;/div&#62;&#60;div class="message-quote-div"&#62;Financieel gezien is de lening in 1 keer terug betalen slecht.&#60;/div&#62;&#60;/blockquote&#62;De rente bij de IB-Groep is de laatste jaren enorm gestegen en wordt voor 5 jaar vastgezet. Voor iemand die in 2007 is afgestudeerd bedraagt de rente voor de komende 5 jaar 4.17 procent. Dat kan je met wat moeite op een spaarrekening net halen, maar er winst op maken wordt lastig tenzij je belegt.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Overigens, voortijdige aflossing van een deel van je schuld verlaagt het maandbedrag dat je moet terugbetalen niet, maar de looptijd van je aflossing wel. Voor mensen met een heel hoge studieschuld of een zo laag inkomen dat ze niet de hele schuld af zullen lossen, is het dus juist niet gunstig om een deel vooraf af te lossen. Die mogen dan alsnog alleen maar meer betalen en zijn dus beter af een spaartegoed op een rekening te laten staan en daaruit de maandlasten te betalen.</message_content>
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<message_content>De rentepercentages worden inderdaad voor 5 jaar vastgezet, maar er zit een ritme in dat elke vijf jaar dezelfde rente terugkomt, kijk maar naar &#60;a href="http://www.ibgroep.nl/particulier/Informatie/Terugbetalen/rentepercentages.asp" rel="external"&#62;dit lijstje van de IB Groep&#60;/a&#62;.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Als je bijvoorbeeld bij 1992 - 1997 - 2002 en 2007 kijkt, dan staat daar telkens 4,17%&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
En dat geldt ook voor de andere jaren, dus als je geluk hebt ben je in een jaar met een gunstig rentepercentage afgestudeerd en wordt dat elke vijf jaar met hetzelfde percentage vernieuwd.&#60;br&#62;
&#60;br&#62;
Of wordt er een nieuw percentage berekend dat ze niet tonen? &#60;img src="http://gathering.tweakers.net/global/smileys/confused.gif" width="19"  height="15" alt=":?" class="smiley"&#62;</message_content>
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